A discussion on human rights, European migration policy, and Central Asian dissidents
Translation from Russian to English by Freedom For Eurasia. Original can be found pn Vlast.kz
Almas Kaisar, Vlast
Leila Seiitbek, photo from knews.kg
Leila Seiitbek, a human rights defender and activist, fled Kyrgyzstan with her family in 2016, fleeing political persecution by the authorities. She has since settled in Vienna, Austria, where she received refugee status and founded the human rights organization Freedom for Eurasia.
The organization publishes reports on high-level corruption in Central Asia, women’s rights, and provides support to people seeking asylum in Europe.
Vlast spoke with Seiitbek about the situation with Central Asian refugees in Europe and the asylum process itself.
Let’s start from the beginning. Please tell us how you got involved in human rights advocacy.
I’ve been involved in activism my entire adult life, since my student days. I’ve collaborated with various organizations, including those based abroad. I’ve worked on very complex issues. One of them, for example, was the conflict in Osh (the interethnic conflict in 2010, shortly after the April Revolution – V.). Back then, I collected information, conducted surveys, and so on.
All of this grew into activism, focused on violations by government employees and officials. The turning point came in 2015, when people approached me with a complaint that a local official had deceived them. He had promised them land, signed contracts, and collected money, but hadn’t followed through. Then these people, and there were thousands of them, protested.
I helped them file a complaint with the financial police when it still existed. We managed to get a criminal case opened, and the official was influential, part of Atambayev’s (former Kyrgyz President Almazbek Atambayev – V.) inner circle.
Then they launched an information campaign against me on state television. In fact, I never considered myself a major activist and didn’t expect such an attack. They turned me into a Western agent and an American spy on the news. They made a funny photo of me, where they put me in front of American planes, supposedly trying to organize protests in Kyrgyzstan to destabilize the situation.
I couldn’t talk to my mom then; I couldn’t call her for three days because I was so ashamed. I was ashamed because all this propaganda was presented in such a way that even I almost believed it. But my mom called me herself; she didn’t ask any questions, she just said that she loved me very much and believed in me. And, of course, that gave me strength.
Osh events, AP Photo
But unfortunately, around the beginning of 2016, I received information that a criminal case was being opened against me. One day, we were stopped on the road by a group of men who followed us and tried to break into our car. Later, an investigator called me and invited me in for a talk. I thought it was a bad call. That same day, my husband, child, and I left our home. And we never returned. Then we turned to people I considered friends. One of them was the Kyrgyz consul. They hid me and my family for a while, of course. But then it turned out they were part of a criminal group involved in human trafficking. I was forced to comply with their demands because they had us in their hands, along with my four-year-old son. They eventually got us out, but the evacuation was accompanied by blackmail and extortion.
We reached Europe and reported them to the police. An Austrian court ultimately convicted one of them, but the other two are still in Kyrgyzstan, and they haven’t faced any charges. For now.
That’s how I ended up in Austria. I applied for refugee status in 2016 and received it in 2021. The process was long and complicated. It was further complicated by the fact that I wasn’t charged with a typical political offense, but with fraud. It’s become clear now that authorities in authoritarian countries use general criminal charges and accusations of financial misconduct. Back then, this wasn’t as widely known. And during that time, of course, I continued to collaborate with human rights activists. We helped the Tajik opposition, which fled during the height of the repression in the country in 2015-2016. But the situation there was complicated by the fact that at that time there was a large influx of refugees from Afghanistan and Syria.
During my first years in exile, I rarely spoke publicly because I was afraid, as I had no protection. Furthermore, there was a criminal case against me and my husband, which remains open to this day. I even found myself and my husband in the Russian wanted list published by Mediazona . Then, a few months before receiving refugee status, I registered the organization Freedom for Eurasia and began working on investigating corruption and its impact on human rights violations. Once we began working, large cases of Central Asian dissidents emerged.
How exactly do you help refugees?
We prepare documents, applications, and gather evidence and reports from various human rights organizations for each individual refugee’s case. This is crucial, as European migration services have a relatively limited understanding of Central Asia. We also assist in finding a suitable lawyer if the refugee doesn’t have one. We assist with appeals to Interpol, filing complaints with the European Court of Human Rights, and participate in asylum hearings as experts on the region’s countries.
It’s important to understand that the burden of proof lies with the refugee, but many of them, even highly educated individuals, don’t know what to say when they enter this process. I remember myself, when I went to the interview, I had no idea what to say. Now, I look at a person’s story and understand which facts need to be especially vividly described and which can be omitted because they’re not particularly important. And there’s no training for refugees or on how to apply for asylum. When our dissidents reach Europe, they have no support networks to guide them through. And that’s not good.
There are lots of Russian and Belarusian organizations. Ours have nothing at all. There are no specialized organizations that deal exclusively with the evacuation of dissidents. But the Russians do have such organizations. These organizations have money for tickets and can obtain visas for them. It feels like no one cares about our dissidents. Although, I can’t say there are fewer of them than Russian or Belarusian refugees.
Again, we don’t expect migration officers to be experts on Central Asian autocracies. But we need to explain to them that we’re returning to a time when autocracies surround us. We need to explain to them what autocracy even is. For example, when I was talking to my officer during my first interview, he smirked when I mentioned the State Committee for National Security [the Kyrgyz secret service – V.]. And what is the GKNB? I told him it’s the successor to the KGB.
Leila Seiitbek with representatives of Tajik civil society. Photo courtesy of OSCE ODIHR
He’s like, “Does that even exist?” I say, “Yes, it does, of course. They’re doing very well, they’re still working.” He smirks, as if I’m telling him about Santa Claus. So he didn’t believe me. People think the KGB is something from the Cold War. In fact, what is needed is a serious human rights information campaign that will emphasize the importance of supporting democratic forces in the region and the importance of helping dissidents from Central Asia.
As I understand it, the situation is further complicated by the fact that conservative and nationalist forces in Europe have grown stronger in recent years. Along with this, negative rhetoric about refugees has also intensified, claiming they are using political reasons to migrate to developed European economies.
Yes, there’s such rhetoric. Well, look, when someone enters the refugee process, they’re completely forbidden from working. It’s completely unclear how long this might last. In reality, the monthly payments for refugees are very small—around 120 euros. What can you do with those 120 euros? Very little. Refugees live in dormitories; they can’t live anywhere else. Unless you’re an oligarch and own a mansion in the country where you’ve applied for asylum.
I can’t imagine someone simply deciding to come to Europe without a purpose, unless they were forced to do so by a critically dire situation. There would have to be some very serious reasons, because if an African or Afghan decides to move to Europe, they’ll have to travel a dangerous road. I can’t imagine someone taking this route simply to abuse Europe’s social security system.
When I hear Western far-right politicians and influencers say that all refugees are rapists and murderers, I realize that this is, of course, madness. I haven’t raped or killed anyone. But I am a refugee.
Instead of engaging in this unconstructive debate, we need to implement serious reform and training for officers so they understand who they’re dealing with. And instead of torturing people in this refugee status waiting system, we need to quickly launch training programs, a language learning program, and a workforce transition program. So they can produce something useful for the country, rather than simply sit around waiting for asylum.
Protest against asylum seekers in Germany, photo by Getty Images
In general, can you explain how the asylum process works in Europe?
You enter the country and you apply for asylum there in the country of your first arrival. Or you apply in the country whose visa brought you into Europe. After you submit your application, it will be sent to the immigration service, and they will schedule an interview. While the process is underway, they may place you in a closed facility. It’s not a prison, of course, but there may be a curfew.
Before the interview, you need to prepare your materials and arguments to present to the officer. You’ll need to explain why it was dangerous for you to remain in your country. You’ll also need to prepare a report from some reputable organizations about your country. All of this will need to be explained.
And then the interview will be conducted either in the local language, or if you don’t speak it, an interpreter will be provided. You need to listen carefully to the interpreter and make sure they’re translating correctly. For example, there are cases involving Tajiks, and they’re often assigned Farsi interpreters. Farsi isn’t the same everywhere; there’s Farsi in Iran, Afghanistan, and so on. And these interpreters don’t always understand Tajiks. And Tajiks don’t always understand them. We had a problem with Pamiris. They don’t speak Farsi; they have their own dialects, and finding an interpreter was extremely difficult. The German authorities tried to force Pamiris to be interviewed in Farsi, despite the fact that they’re obligated to provide an appropriate interpreter from the asylum seeker’s native language.
After the interview, the officer will decide whether to conduct a second interview, grant status, or refuse. Refusals are most common. With this refusal, you take your application to court. Half of the decisions are usually overturned in court. But this court hearing can take a year. If a refusal is still received, you’ll need to appeal to higher courts, usually the Constitutional Court, and then the European Court of Human Rights. Specialized lawyers are needed everywhere, and with them, you can also seek interim measures, such as a ban on deportation.
Tell me, you went through the asylum process yourself. What were the most pressing issues during the process, and has the situation become more complicated since then?
It seems that migration authorities in Europe don’t bother to delve into a refugee’s case at all, as if they’re driven by some sort of desire to get rid of them as quickly as possible. Often, it takes a year or a year and a half for a case to be processed, and most often, it’s a refusal. Moreover, the refusals are issued with very weak argumentations. They don’t even look for logical grounds, by and large. This even happens in court. They simply write, “Implausible.”
For example, we had a case involving a woman who suffered torture and sexual violence for political reasons because she belonged to an opposition group. Both the immigration officer and, most tragically, the court presided over by a female judge, decided that “they don’t consider sexual violence a significant factor because the case happened a long time ago” and they don’t consider it “that traumatic.”
It simply shocked me because such a trauma has no statute of limitations. It’s a trauma that stays with a person forever. And some decisions are truly inhumane. And they’re inhumane not because people are cruel, but because they don’t care.
Refugee camp in Austria, photo AFP/Getty Images
When they look at cases from Central Asia, they’re completely uninterested. But, for example, we’ve had successful cases from Kazakhstan. However, we’ve noticed a trend across the board: Muslims are viewed particularly negatively. Again, their understanding is that the majority of people in Kazakhstan are Muslim. So why are Muslims persecuted then? And it’s hard to explain to Europeans.
There was another case when a Tajik citizen, Saidazam Rakhmonov, whose wife is a German citizen, was denied refugee status in Germany. He was told he had to return to Tajikistan and obtain a visa as a spouse. He tried to convince the German authorities that he could not do this because it was too dangerous to return to the country; he could be tortured, killed, and so on. But the German authorities ignored this.
In Tajikistan, people returning from Western countries are viewed with great suspicion by the authorities, especially if they have a beard. They are considered terrorists. This is especially true if they come from Germany, where there is a large diaspora of regime critics.
Saidazam Rakhmonov was detained on October 6, and on October 12, his body was handed over to his relatives living in Tajikistan, accompanied by a security officer who did not allow them to conduct a ritual washing. I can only assume this was due to the signs of torture. But the authorities insisted he committed suicide. His wife claims he had no intention of committing suicide; he was waiting for a visa and had already submitted his documents to the German embassy.
I don’t know what authorities in Germany will do about this now, but we have called on the German authorities to begin an investigation.
Refugee cases are further complicated by Interpol searches, which are actively abused by all Central Asian countries and which we are also appealing. There was a case, for example, involving a Tajik family. They were not an opposition family, but religious believers. And they belonged to a family whose 14 members are in prison on religious and politically motivated charges. In other words, practically the entire family is in prison.
They fled to Ukraine before the war. Then the war began, and they fled to Poland along with all the other refugees. Two members of the family, a husband and wife, remained in Poland. The wife’s sister managed to escape to Belgium. They had four of their own children with them, two of them. The police, seeing the husband and wife among the Ukrainian refugees in Poland, removed them from the train. They took them to a temporary detention center. First, they arrested the wife. The husband left the children with his wife’s sister and went looking for her. And he was arrested.
In this case, the Poles behaved incredibly odd. They helped Tajik prosecutors correctly fill out extradition requests. In other words, they actively collaborated with the dictatorship to bring these people back.
As a result, the woman and the man are now in prison in Tajikistan. The couple’s sister received asylum in Belgium with all their children. We also supported that case. Of course, it was a life-or-death struggle. The Tajik authorities accused her of being an Islamic State militant, and she is a tiny woman. What kind of militant is she?
We fought off the extradition request. And interestingly, the Belgian authorities, when they reviewed her case, even included a certificate from the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB). I asked them, “How is that possible? You know what the FSB is, and yet you still include a certificate from the FSB in the case?” You know what kind of agency they are. How can you trust them?
They claimed she was a member of the Islamic State and her husband was a Taliban member. Members of two rival organizations that kill each other, in the same family. Absurd.
There’s also a group of Karakalpak refugees in Poland. Are they also trying to obtain refugee status?
Yes, a large group has formed in Poland. Many of them have already received refugee status. Even a Karakalpak who had been there for several years without documents received refugee status. With the support of local Polish lawyers and human rights activists, we were able to obtain documents for him. The situation is now more or less favorable.
Leila Seiitbek with representatives of Karakalpak civil society
Is there a trend whereby European authorities are making more diplomatic concessions to autocracies in order to gain economic benefits and cooperation?
Yes. We told the European authorities that money shouldn’t be a priority. That puts human rights on the back burner. Unfortunately, that’s the short-sighted position of the European authorities.
For example, in France, according to our information, they refused to take responsibility over the Karakalpak activists, fearing that it would undermine the uranium mining investment agreement with Uzbekistan. If this is true, it’s sheer hypocrisy. France must decide: either they’re for human rights, or they’re just in it for the money.
European authorities last promised €12 billion in investments in the region. But this investment package contains no provisions for human rights or the development of civil society.
We asked how they plan to ensure the security of these investments. They’re investing in countries where there are no fair courts, no transparent investigations, and where corruption is rampant. This is absurd. Because this money will be stolen. It’s like adding fuel to a fire.
The thing is that when they receive this money, they have the opportunity to enrich themselves in this way, thanks to which they can suppress the active part of their citizens.
These are simply two completely incompatible things: public good and kleptocracy. They don’t coexist.
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen in Samarkand during the Europe-Central Asia Summit. Photo courtesy of Commonspace.
What are your overall expectations for the future? Will the situation worsen?
I don’t think the situation will improve for now. Right now, all over the world, including in the US and Europe, there are a lot of calls, especially from the far right, to completely abolish refugee laws and withdraw from the UN Refugee Convention. And given the general mood, I think the situation will remain dire for now.
But this doesn’t mean people should give up on applying for refugee status if they’re in danger. The important thing you absolutely must do is alert human rights activists. Let them know where you’re going and when you’ll arrive. They should explain the precautions to take to avoid getting into trouble. In any case, there are, of course, no guarantees. But there are many protection mechanisms, and it’s entirely possible to obtain status if you’re truly a person being persecuted for political reasons.
How do you cope with working with such difficult cases?
It’s really hard. But what can we do about it? We’re lawyers, after all. Only a pragmatic approach helps here. Don’t dwell on emotions, but find concrete solutions. I’m dealing with the purely technical, engineering side of things. I can’t be a psychologist. But once the issue of Interpol and refugee status has been resolved, it becomes easier for the individual to deal with emotional experiences.